Interview

Introducing our latest transcript blog featuring an enlightening interview with Danielle Barbereau, a distinguished Divorce Coach. In this insightful conversation, Danielle shares invaluable wisdom on navigating the emotional journey of divorce and finding the resilience to cope with divorce.

Join us as we delve into practical strategies for coping with divorce and embracing personal growth amidst life’s challenges. Get ready to be inspired and empowered as we explore the transformative power of resilience and self-care in the face of adversity.

Read on for the full transcript of our video, “How to Cope with Divorce.”

[Music]

Hello everybody, um, today I’m so pleased to have Danielle with me on The Divorce Magazine, which is part of our events that we’re holding at the moment which is all about navigating divorce.

And today um, Danielle who’s been a contributor to The Divorce Magazine before, is here to talk to us, about the process of divorce but from a different angle not the financial side and not from the legal side. I’ll tell you what she’s going to speak about today.

So before that I’ll tell you a little bit about Danielle. She’s a highly qualified, I’m going to read it here on the screen, she’s a highly qualified Relationship Coach, and the UK’s first specialist in Divorce Coaching. She’s a published, published author of “After the Split”, a book that I highly recommend, and Edition One and Edition Two. And she’s currently writing her first novel, well done Danielle, thank you, diminished woman and another one that she’s co-authoring um, at the moment with Alex Swallow which is going to be of immense help, to other coaches who are building up their practice.

So they’re in the process of writing that, you’re working on your title, you’re almost finished, and I think a lot of people will need and they do need help just building up their own private practices, so I think that will be really, really welcome, to a lot of people. Probably not only divorce coaches by the way, even psychologists when they’re set, setting up their own private practices. What do we need to know ,yeah, yeah.

Because the problem is if you are not successful in this, you may be tempted to give up. And that be a crying shame. Completely. And um, Danielle has worked in the field of divorce since 2010, and has worked with over 1,400 clients. She’s um she’s, she’s a fully qualified coach with a Masters in Sociology and a Masters in Coaching.

On The Divorce Magazine if you want to read any of the articles that Danielle has written for us, you can go on there. We have “Impact of Breakup and How to Survive It”, and there’s “Why do People Have Affairs?” and the other one that we have is “Coping With Divorce When Your Spouse Leaves you.” So really, really you know, it’s those timeless articles because divorce keeps happening and those topics are still relevant today.

I’m Soila, I’m a, Counselling Psychologist and the Founder of The Divorce Magazine. Um, so today Danielle I came across your blog, um, which was entitled um, “Steadying Yourself When you Wobble During Divorce and, and Separation” and I thought, perfect for navigating divorce um, events at the moment that we’re holding on The Divorce Magazine.

How do we steady ourselves when we start wobbling during the divorce process?

And so yeah, please, tell us how do we steady ourselves when we start wobbling during the divorce process? Thank you very much Soila, I think the first thing to say is that it is completely normal to wobble. In fact, it would be abnormal not to. Of course it is, because we are going through something so enormous – a loss of identity, a loss of everything we knew before.

Probably we’ve been betrayed as well in the process for example, if somebody has left you without telling much truth actually for another person. So it’s extremely uh, difficult and completely normal to, make a little bit of progress and then a, dip again, completely, completely normal.

I was looking at a client I’ve had since the new year, and I was uh, wondering why have they stayed for a long time in their marriage actually because, you can also wobble, about deciding or not to leave the relationship and sometimes, when you are in a marriage uh, the other partner may be quite adept, as at doing quite enough, just to keep you there. And then obviously falls back into bad habits.

So I looked at clients and I thought well, what do they have in common and I’ve made a couple of notes which is why I’m looking down here.

The first one is that, they are all over the place. That’s a, a very technical place for tell but actually that’s what it is, they don’t know what to think. They are low, confused, unhappy, uncertain, and in these sit, situations it’s very difficult, to take a you know, to keep going in something when we are not too sure.

They may also believe what, their partners has said. For example that it’s their fault, if a relation, “look what you made me do” is a sentence we all know. So they scared of ending the marriage especially, if they’ve tried very, very hard to keep it going and invested so much of themselves in that.

And of course everybody hope that things would get better, and even when a decision is made, they still deep down hope that our partner is going to realise what an error they are committing and they are going to come back. And also, a lot of people have a great deal to lose, by ending a relationship. By um, financially of course, but also socially uh, and you know some people operate in circles where frankly they’re going to be dropped very quickly, at the end of a relationship.

So it’s normal, normal first of all to take a long time to make the decision, and secondly, even when the decision is made, to wobble, for all these reasons. Yeah, I really like that. That, that part where you’re saying “it’s normal to wobble”, “it’s normal to wobble” and just before we started um, recording, there’s a quote that you read and um, do you remember.

I like that quote, that I found somebody online called, Dr Julia Samuel and in fact I will refer to her once more before the end but she said, “grief” and we’re looking at grief here loss, “is an emotional response to an event.” So something unthinkable, unexpected happens, and we have an emotional response. Well that’s normal isn’t it. But somehow, we’re very harsh on ourselves, thinking why can’t I resolve this. Well there’s plenty of reason why we can’t resolve this. So I like that very much.

Can you talk a little bit more about the grief we experience when going through a divorce?

Yeah, can I just tap on that part where you’re talking about grief, because one thing that I find that when, when I work with, because my work is very much with children, parents, who are going through divorce to do with their children. Not so much with them as the adults, but to help them, uh, navigate their children’s feelings, emotions, and so forth.

And one of the things that I have found when I, when I do my assessment with the parents, is, understanding how easy it, it is to not really understand that going through a divorce is not just grieving for, the loss of the marriage, but there’s so much more that you’re grieving for. Can we talk a little bit about the grief?

Absolutely. Um, we grieve not only, about as you said the end of a relationship, but first, first of all, there are a lot of people affected, and you mentioned children, also elderly parents, also friends and family so all this, is extremely difficult and some times for example, being humiliated out of a relationship, if this been an affair or if everybody knew before, you did, it’s really, really difficult to handle.

I remember a client saying to me years ago, “I’ve lost my past and I have lost my future.” And that sentence stayed with me because obviously she thought she had been married for over 30 years, they had children, so she felt that, that all, all that was tainted. But also she was looking forward to a happy retirement with her husband, who incidentally had asked her to go and buy a house, never visited it, and then said “by the way this is your house now, and I’m going there.” So she said I’ve lost my future. That is terrible.

How do you help a client who feels like they have lost their past and their future cope with divorce?

Yeah, and I’m just thinking just that what you said about “I have lost my past and I’ve lost my future.” Can I just ask how you then helped this client because, I’m sure there are people who are going to be listening to this who are just like, absolutely, especially when they’re in the beginning, of the divorce process or they’re really into it. What would you say to them, if they think “I’ve lost my past and I’ve lost my future.” What would you say?

First of all it’s important that they feel hurt, it is true. Because I mean they’re going to feel that, their partner is bulldozing them into making decisions, there is a legal process taking place, they’re completely losing control, so I think the first thing I want them to know, is that their fear, is valid. They need to be heard, it is true, they have lost the future as they had dreamt it.

But of course, once they work through all this, they will discover another future, often a better one by the way, but it is at that point, they don’t see it, at all, and yes it’s true that they, for example this woman at from the lovely cottage in the country, thinking it would be happily ever after, except she found herself on her own in the beautiful cottage.

So yes, the future has been to stolen from her, but then I work at first of all, helping them through the worst of it because they are at a terrible time, in fact I remember that client, cried so much that I was running out of tissues! I had a box, and she was using them all, um, and then, it’s important but equally they can’t stay there. You can’t forever think, “oh my God somebody has stolen my future.” That cannot be.

So, very quickly you have to think of, extracting yourself from this. So first of all it’s the survival, and then starting to think, and later on when you work through, and often the relationship was not that good actually when you think about it, there were things which were not brilliant, you work through and start thinking of another future. Yeah, yeah.

And you said something there about, first of all she can’t stay there. No. But we know, you know and I know, yeah, that there are men, and women, and spouses, and ex spouses, who will stay there and not just for the year, they can stay there for, several years. And that is so, depressing to see. Because it is normal.

I mean you know people have been punched in the stomach metaphorically speaking, it’s a huge thing, it’s a huge shock. It’s like, a kind of a grenade in your life, and it’s normal to take time, at first you’re winded for a while, and then you have to work through something extremely complicated which makes no sense. But I would say that after a few months, you have to start thinking now hang on a minute, during that time if I’m not working through this, my life is on hold, my partner’s life is not on hold, if there is another party involved. They’re not on hold, so who is losing there?

I think it’s very important to see that, and I also think that, it is incredibly bad for clients to ruminate. You cannot stay thinking about what you’ve lost. You, at first yes, you have to understand what you’ve lost, but very quickly, you have to think, and agree even intellectually that your future, is going to be different and you have to work through the pain, and unfortunately there’s no easy way of doing that it’s painful, but at the end of it you find a way to grow.

Yeah, I had as you say so many clients, but I believe that they, at the end of it, I would say 99.9% of them have found a way to grow and that’s the success. Yeah. And what you just said there I think um, apart from what you had said about um, it’s normal to feel the pain, but where you said unfortunately it’s painful. It is painful, yeah, undoubtedly. Yeah undoubtedly, painful I mean I had written in the first book if had a magic wand I wish, I see people I mean struggling in such levels of agony, and I have to help them uh. And I think it’s very much about, yes, you are right, you are in that terrible place.

I think that people need to be, compassionate towards themselves and sometimes people say “I can’t believe”, “I can’t emerge from that.” Well I can believe. So you can’t be too, too hard you have to be compassionate.

I remember again Dr Julia Samuel who I heard few months back, she spoke about rituals in the recovery process. And I like that very much. She also called them beautifully, “habits of the soul.” Oh. And I feel it’s lovely too because you have to hold on to something. And she wanted them to start rituals which make, make them feel safe, grounded, and maybe if every morning they start with a walk, instead of staying in bed, unwashed saying “poor me, poor me.” I think it’s quite nice to start with this.

So I absolutely agree with that and rituals are important, we know that in history and they are grounding, and anything which can ground you at the beginning when you feel, you’ve lost control you are in kind of moving suns, is really important those little, stones you can jump to in the middle of the mud, to hold on to, yes because I can do this, and this and if you have a I don’t know, even an invitation to do something, think about it, it’s the next little stone to jump onto. And I really like that very much.

I like that too and there’s something quite empowering about creating your own rituals. Um, you don’t have to stick to that person’s ritual, or that person’s ritual, it’s creating your own ritual. I remember a client saying to me you know the, at the table you know what it’s like in a couple, she said that night she sat in his chair. And that was, it’s nothing, but it was hugely relevant to, of course it was, it meant do you know what, I own this house it’s my space.

Have you seen the different ways that men and women cope with divorce?

Yeah, yeah. What Danielle, what about okay I don’t know what percentage of your clients are, men because I know in my work probably 97% of them are male. Um, so they’re mostly dads who have been um, court ordered to attend or who have been suggested to attend a, a Triple P Parenting Program that I offer, and then I have mums who come in for other reasons. And I just want to, to understand a little bit if in your field you’ve seen, different ways that men will cope as divisive as it might sound, that men will cope in different ways than women tend to cope.

I would say that 50% I’m, I’m an equal you know 50% men and women. Good. Uh, so I find it difficult to answer that because in my view, it’s not men, it’s people. There are people, who struggle, some of my women client will say “well men do this” I said “well actually no, people do this. There are people who have affairs, there are people who will evade, trying to be uh, put in front of the, consequences of their action. It’s nothing to do with men or women.” So to me I feel that much more.

Now in terms of copying mechanisms, in some way women can speak more to friends, although that’s a double-edged sword, you know sometimes well-meaning people, can give the wrong advice. Men, not so much, and I think the reason they work with me is maybe that they feel lonely in this, and they that they need support. But no I, I can’t put it down to, but obviously also you mentioned that you work with people who have young children. For me, most of my clients are a little bit older, and often the children are young adults or even they have left the. So it’s slightly different. I don’t deal with children arrangements and to me I refer, to Parenting Coaches when there are issues like this I don’t deal with them. Yeah.

Can you talk about the double edged sword of talking to friends and family about your divorce?

And I think you touch on something quite important there, which is talking. You said one thing you said it can be a “double-edged sword.” And I know with, with my male friends you know they say the same thing they’re like “oh when we have a problem we just go sit down and we go hey how is everything”, and then that’s it five minutes and it’s done. But then, we’ve come to see the statistics in terms of the biggest killer of men in this country is suicide. Indeed, and um, so there is something to be said about allowing or not even allowing that’s the wrong word, to get men to speak. It’s so normal that you’re hurting.

When I, when I work with the dads in my practice, I’ve seen some of the most amazing fathers, who are just absolutely hands-on and they want to be there for their children but that is kind of taken away from them and they will sit and they will break and they will cry and they can’t understand you know, why this is happening. But they won’t do the same outside with their friends, or you know, they’ll just say “yeah no it’s okay it’s a little bit hard but you know.”

So I, I wish that you know, they could have this space that, where they can just feel. Comfortably, safely, like we do, you know with friends. But I want to talk about the double edged sword bit, because I kind of have a feeling I know what you’re talking about, but tell tell us what you mean.

So first of all you write, and I work with clients like this, whatever parent uses their children as pawns as a frankly, frankly put the child first and there a lot of you, there’s a lot of evidence about that. It is so wrong. Men do it too, women do it. It is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I think in the recovery process and to stop from wobbling, it is very important to spend time with friends. Uh, friends have a huge role to play, not for advice, I still don’t believe that I’m much agree, with you it’s about having a safe space, somewhere where people are not judged, and where people are not going to get the wrong kind of advice. But friends are essential because we are not uh, you know alone in the world. We need to be connected and in fact I would say a way to stop wobbling so much, is to connect. And it’s very, very important to, build up those connections.

The temptation when it happens initially is to stay in our shells and, yes for a short amount of time, but that is important to reconnect, and maybe actually, to have normality or at work as a matter of fact, normality it’s normal to go to the pub with a friend, it’s normal to play sport with a friend. That’s what you need to reconnect and to be reminded, that you are much more than what has just happened, you know that doesn’t define your identity forever more. And sometimes that break, where you are not “oh that poor person who’s been left behind” is really, really important.

And also, with a friend you’re going to laugh. And my goodness I believe in that. Because sometimes you can forget, and having a good laugh is really useful. So not being isolated during the process, but equally friends, yes some friends have different functions, that would be slightly wary about the well-meaning friends. And certainly incredibly wary and in fact avoiding like the plague the social circle and people would say “so what’s happening now?” As if that was, you know, your life is about, entertainment, yes, I mean for goodness. The answer to that I believe in very short sentences. “Yes I’m going through something very difficult” and not comment because really that’s for you.

And people who think they can go speak about you are not friends. So if you know I, I was telling you earlier on like you know when I was going through this book which I read ages ago and I was going through it again. I’ll send you a new copy Soila! Yeah, there’s so much in here like I was saying to you the, this section where you say “you will get better and you will find a new you.”

I know it’s a process, and I’m just remembering when I was going through divorce, you’re, you’re pretty lost, internally, mentally, and you will make mistakes where you will confide in somebody who will just fund the flames of your anger. Um, you will feel alone, you will feel judged, you will feel useless, you will feel like you have failed, you will worry about my future, what am I going to be? What am I going, to who am I? You know all of that, there’s a lot and all that can I remember just feeling lost and when you’re saying just staying in bed, because, what’s the point?

But the point is you need to get up. My first client the door to was in her dressing gown and I said oooh shower, make up, and we start working. To be honest she was my first client my, my list of clients was not long, I could do this. But what you say is absolutely the spirit of my work. Yes, I have to help people through, but having been doing this for, you know 14 years now, what I know with absolute certainty, is that, eventually people emerge.

And um, there is now something we speak about post-traumatic growth. And yes it is a trauma by the way, but that PTG, post-traumatic growth I love that. It’s only because you’ve gone through something very difficult that you work it through, that you grow, to bigger and better, and you know sometimes my client said to me “oh, you know now two years down the line, five years down the line, I’m much happier, you know, I’m with a better partner I’m with,” whatever or decide not to have a partner by the way. But they have this decisions and they are happier, really it is true because we grow out of these mad things that we go through.

For a while we don’t see that of course we don’t, but I always say to client you will eventually, and yes it’s a new you, but I mean I’ve been through divorce too and gosh when I remember what it was like. But I’ve emerged and, and have a much happier life, in every single way.

What does one do with the anger when the relationship ends suddenly?

Yeah, yeah, can we touch on the anger. I think correct me if I’m wrong cause you’re the relationship person. I, imagine that the person who leaves, sometimes they have processed the leaving while in the marriage, it’s kind of “easy” in inverted commas, to leave but the person who’s been left, the anger, not so much even the pain but the anger of how dare you? What did I ever do? I’m just I’m just thinking what does one do with that, when you think that you’re sailing along with your, spouse like really nicely and then suddenly, he or she, or they turn around and they say actually, I need to get out of this.

I’m thinking about a client I was working with yesterday, at the end of November, her husband announced he was leaving uh, no real explanation. Uh, immediately before Christmas so, two weeks later, he wanted to go to mediation. And because she didn’t feel ready, he was saying “you, you’re dragging your feet, you’re this, you’re that, you’re the other.” Well I’m afraid, well before you can do anything, you have to process this woman is winded. And for me the first thing people will think is pain. This and, and confusion, “what is it? Why? Why? Why? In fact, most of them will never know why.

But this um, yesterday morning my client said to me so we’re looking at now January, and she said to me “I’m so angry.” And I said good, good, because she has moved from the pain where she feels it’s her fault when she doesn’t know what to do to saying, “how dare he.” And already, she had put in place things where she was saying no. And I was pleased to see that because that means that on some level, not a lot, first of all she had lost control before and also for me I work at trying to make a, client see or to get some form of control.

And when they start being angry, they are more able to do this. I mean, you know and again, she might be angry, and then the next day she’s so low, that’s normal. But, eventually there is a pattern, and she emerges from this. So when I hear that they’re angry, I’m quite happy actually, again as long as they don’t stay there.

Yeah, they don’t stay there and they don’t become destructive. No, that’s it. Yeah, yeah, and I like what you just said, about the you know, one minute you’re feeling like this, the next minute you’re like this, because it’s not a linear process. Oh no. The recovery, it can be you take two steps, and you go back, and you, will so no wonder you’re calling it wobbling, you know because you wobble, wobble, until you’re able to then eventually, you know steady yourself and yeah, yeah. And it’s again completely normal, but the trend is up even if it’s two forward, two steps forward one back, the trend is up, and the moments of wobbling, will be less frequent and less deep as well, as time goes on.

How do you approach a new client who is feeling really low?

So have to hold down there, it’s like you know by the fingernail, hold on there. You can’t bear. Let’s imagine um, just before we finish Danielle, let’s imagine I am a man, my wife has just said to me, or my husband has just said to me, I don’t want to be here anymore, I have met somebody, and um, all that is breaking out and I’m feeling really, really, really, really, awful, and I come to see you and I’m like Danielle I found your contacts online, on The Divorce Magazine, could you please tell me what, how, I need your help. Where do you start and what would that work look like?

So I get very few, of these kind of clients because my clients are normally referred by lawyers, and they are not coping. So um, what so that’s one bit, they’re not coping somebody just been told I’m going. Uh, the, I help people make decision. Now a person who’s feeling guilty because they have said, it’s the end of the marriage, it’s rare but actually, it’s really good if a partner can say, “I’m really sorry, but this is the end and I’ve met somebody.” I wish, I wish people would all do that.

Instead, most people, at least the people I work with, have been at the receiving hand of somebody, who is not telling them the truth, who has been planning for a year or two to uh, leave, who is blaming them for that, “it’s your fault you did that, you didn’t do that”, trying to feed the narrative.

And that or even give no explanation, that first client I mentioned in her dressing gown, she came back from work one night to find a removal van on the driveway and he went. And she never got any explanation. Now that is hard. Whereas an explanation like that, it’s hard of course, but at least it’s honest, because otherwise you feel you’ve been lied to and there’s nothing worse. You deserve the respect of an explanation, and if you don’t get that, no wonder it’s hard. And it will take longer to recover, because how the relationship ends, has an impact, no question about that. Yeah.

There’s yeah, there’s, there’s a part where in your book where you say, right at the beginning getting divorced where you say “only initiate proceedings if it is what you really want to do.” Yes, they are, a lot of people who say “right so this is the end, so there’s no need to speak to a lawyer by the way, let’s just agree” and you know, and you are bulldozed into a process which is completely out of your control.

So at first no, take your time to think what do I want often it’s because the, actually the person who say they want it to be done very quickly, I’ve met somebody else, I’m afraid you don’t jump to their tune you need to be ready, but eventually you will see, you will understand, that you can’t make anybody love you. You know that doesn’t exist, you sooner stop the tide, frankly.

So eventually you’re thinking no that’s it, and then if you decide that’s it and I’m starting the divorce, that is a heck of a big control that you’ve taken back. But only do it when you’re ready and I had a client who had to wait you know 6 months or, or more, before they felt capable of that. Well fine, you know fine. We I, think it has to be when you’re ready. Yeah, it, it, is like we said right at the beginning going full circle, it is a loss. When somebody comes and announces to you that somebody very close to you has died, you need time to process, you need, you, you’ll sit there going I don’t understand, I don’t understand, I spoke with them yesterday, how can they be dead? You know, the same thing with, with marriage I’m ending it, but what do you mean you’re ending it, what, what I’m you know.

Exactly, and you’re right to make that comparison because I, I make that comparison with clients. The, the difficulty with divorce, is that as opposed to death, your partner is alive. Not only that, but your partner might be with somebody else. My goodness, you know the one who is going to get the, the casserole and the sympathy is the widow or the widower, not the person who’s been left behind. And it is so hard to cope, with the idea that somebody has gone with somebody else, and yeah it is incredibly hard.

I really compare it with the feeling of death, loss that way, but almost worse at the beginning because on top of this you had humiliation, being lied, to all sorts of things. But in, I think in the long run you, possibly recover quicker nevertheless. There’s something there.

Danielle thank you so much, it’s a conversation that we can keep going where I’m thinking maybe, we need to at some point talk about, just focus on the shame, yeah, um, of a failed relationship, you know, um.

That is huge, yeah. Um, so I think and then also the, the maybe on the other side of it, where it’s the guilt I don’t know if, if people who live relationships go to see divorce coaches because they feel so guilty for what they have done. I don’t know, I can’t, so because. My work is really to make people look at the reality and they might not like this. But guilt, guilt, even if you both agree the marriage comes to an end, you’re guilty, you feel guilty so it’s, you have children, you have, we spoken about that before, so guilt is a very, valid emotion.

And of course, even if you have been left, you feel guilty, that so what was wrong with me? What did I not do? What did I not? Say, well probably nothing. It’s just you know but, and that, on that you mention the death of a loved one is the same you feel guilty, you know did I do enough? I didn’t say that, all sorts of things guilt, and shame, are usually and if you manage to work through those emotions, you definitely uh, you know emerge quicker.

What tips would you give to someone going through a divorce to steady themselves?

If you were to give us some tips to steady yourself, what, during you know from, when you wobble during divorce what would you say? I’m looking at my list, not remating, so maybe the not to do is that, did I put other negatives, not looking at everything in terms of loss.

But if I want to be positive, I would say regaining control sometimes is very small like sitting in his chair, compassion for self, I mean there’s something you can’t, laughing, moving, taking exercise, journaling. Journaling is seen as, you even if you write two sentences at the end of the day, it’s very important to just it’s a way of saying something without it having consequences. Yeah. Eyes firmly on the end goal. I’m going through this but I know I will emerge, and I will emerge in a better place.

I think it’s also important not to be, some clients will do plenty of things they instead of doing the thing they do, huge amounts of activity, sometimes you need calm. Because it’s in, space a calm space, that thinking can happen uh, what else could I say uh, friends are very important, grieving for the future instead of seeing it as loss. I’ve, I’ve lost my past, I’ve lost my future, yes I need to grieve for that and accepting that it’s huge, and then keeping hope, I know I will emerge even if I can’t really see how. I know that and I will learn from it. If you manage to keep that perspective, and it it’s like flexing a muscle, it gets easier. At first it’s hard but it gets easier, and frankly I can say in all honesty, that at the end, all my clients except one or two but it’s not a lot of number, emerge stronger and better. It is the truth. It is, it is.

Thank you so much Danielle as always. You know your articles that we have um, with your book, if anybody I mean there’s a second edition. So if you can get this, especially honestly, especially if you’re, at the beginning or right middle part of the divorce and you’re struggling with this, you know um, from breakup to recovery uh, first things first, finding some relief, there’s so much in here. And it’s a tiny book so if you’re carrying it you know, it’s not big bulky, it’s straight to the point I think um. Thank you, yeah, if you can, that was actually why I wrote it uh, the solicitor with referring client say, tell us what you say to your client. So that was that. It’s not about me you know some people write about them of no interest just trying to get people at the beginning or early in the process, yeah, and maybe in the middle as well yeah. That was why. Why don’t you tell people how they can contact you? Oh thank you very much, so my name is, complicated but my email is danielle@danielleb.co.uk, that’s it, I don’t know if you can see my name on that, yeah, I mean we’ll have it, we’ll have it on the, yeah, good perfect, and it is on my website, it is on Amazon, but really it was just written, it was not meant to change the world, simply to give support like I do to my clients.

Yeah and, and, um, we’ll have it at the bottom of the link anyway, so people will know how to find you. Thank you so much, I’ll be in contact with all the other bits that we need to cover, an absolute pleasure too, thank you, definitely, bye, bye, bye!

[Music]

Read more articles by Danielle Barbereau.

About Danielle Barbereau

Danielle Barbereau is a leading professional coach specialising in Divorce since 2010. Her unique skill set compliments and adds value to the work of family solicitors by addressing ‘a significant gap in their service’. She supports clients through what is a difficult and painful process (enabling them to give clearer instructions and make better decisions), freeing the lawyer to concentrate on the legal aspects of divorce.

Danielle is the author of After the Split: The Definitive Guide to Recovery When Relationships Break Down which is available on Kindle, Amazon and on Danielle’s website: www.danielleb.co.uk.